Dave Karlsgodt 0:00
Hello, listeners. This is Dave Karlsgodt, your regular host. I wanted to give a quick update before we started today's episode, I'm very excited to announce that our firm Fovea was recently acquired by the national firm Brailsford and Dunlavey, headquartered in Washington, DC. Brailsford and Dunlavey is dedicated to leading the planning, development and management of the places that shape and strengthen our communities. My business partner Rob McKenna and I will continue our work with higher ed and corporate campuses in our new roles at B&D. Kaia Findlay will also make the transition with us and continue her role as podcast manager, but now with the full support of the B&D marketing team. We've got a full pipeline of shows in the works and we expect regular listeners won't notice much change beyond how we introduce ourselves. Without further ado, on with the episode. Welcome to the campus energy and sustainability podcast. In each episode will talk with leading campus professionals thought leaders, engineers and innovators addressing the unique challenges and opportunities facing higher ed and corporate campuses. Our discussions will range from energy conservation and efficiency to planning and finance, for building science to social science, from energy systems to food systems. We hope you're ready to learn, share and ultimately accelerate your institution towards solutions. I'm your host, Dave Karlsgodt, I'm a director of energy and infrastructure advisory services at Brailsford and Dunlavey.

Kaia Findlay 1:21
And I'm Kaia Findlay, podcasts and communications manager for the campus energy and sustainability podcast. In this episode, Dave and I are taking the opportunity to share some of our and your favorite sustainability podcasts. You'll hear interviews with four podcast hosts, who will discuss their journeys and goals for telling great stories. You'll also hear a few podcast recommendations from other listeners. Our first interview is with Amber Artrip and Nate Nilles of the modern energy management podcast. Who are our co producers for this episode. We hope you enjoy their insights and those to come later on in the episode.

Dave Karlsgodt 1:58
Well Amber and Nate it's It's great to talk to you and I was excited to run into your podcast when you first started releasing episodes last summer energy management is certainly a topic near and dear to my heart. We do a lot of work, talking around strategic energy management, at least as a concept. It's always the one of the linchpins of any great strategy. This has certainly been a reoccurring theme through our podcast, but as the name of your podcast, which suggests energy management is part of every one of your episodes, which I think is pretty cool. So you know, give me a little bit of the layout of your show. And and let's go from there.

Amber Artrip 2:32
Thank you so much, Dave. It's really awesome to even be invited onto your episode for the 20 podcasts of 2020.

Dave Karlsgodt 2:40
You get to help create the list. So that's even better, right?

Amber Artrip 2:42
Yeah, this is this is great. You know, we started this podcast because we have hundreds of customers who are doing really, really incredible work when it comes to energy management. And we believe that every single one of our customers is a modern Energy Manager. So we wanted to collect these stories. of our customers who are doing incredible, awesome things, and share them and give our customers a platform to tell stories that that they've learned in their journey to modern energy management and just give them a place to proudly share their work. So that's why we created this podcast. And it's really fun for Nate and I to get to connect with our customers every week, too. It's a great learning experience for both of us.

Nate Nilles 3:25
Absolutely. And Amber, you know, just to add on that, you know, when I think about it, one was you kind of get to know the story behind the story, right? And in the lifetime of what all these really interesting people have done, and it really is a mix, as you mentioned, right? We have customers that are from our enterprise campus. So it's higher ed, its corporate, it's CRE. There's a mix of partners that may be consultants or technology or design build, but I think, you know, I really wanted to have a forum where they could listen to new ideas. They could learn new tactics at their own pace. I'm a podcast geek and I listened to a million of them. But when I can go at my own pace and pick out gems that may, you know, be this breakthrough for me to do something a little bit differently. I thought it was a really cool way to do that in a very modern if you will, for him with podcasts right so so it's been great.

Dave Karlsgodt 4:17
Well, your your first episode, I have to admit I was a little jealous because that was somebody I was hoping to interview at some point, Justin Owen from Weber State, we've run into them at conferences where my business partner has and it's always been really thrilled with how they've approached energy management. And we use that as an example when we're talking with other clients. So thanks a lot for putting together I mean that both sarcastically and genuinely for stealing a great idea. I also appreciate it some you know, some friends that I knew like Jim Simon is a good friend of mine from Gonzaga and Debra Shepard from Riverstone consulting. So it's fun to hear their full stories.

Amber Artrip 4:51
It's funny, Justin's the best. His specific episode was on the untapped potential for energy managers. That was actually his idea. We took him out to dinner after AEE West last year. And he's so fired up because he's like, there's so many more things that we could be doing as energy managers. But we like to put ourselves in these little boxes and say, This is what we own. This is what we do. But you know, he sees it in a very big, holistic way of, of running the campus. That was a really great episode I recommend tune into it gets very technical, but it was very good.

Nate Nilles 5:28
I think the piece that I took away that was big, and he's a good example. So many of them have, you know, where they've started, now all of them are getting a seat at the table, right? Whether it's at the board level, the CXO level, there is visibility to what they're doing at the very top of these organizations and to see the traction they've been able to get and then see these roles develop, I think is super, super exciting. And we talked about that a little bit in our kind of predictions episode coming up on some of the things we see, but but that part is really great.

Dave Karlsgodt 6:03
Now, it's interesting, I just got back from a conference in Chicago and one of the one of the people was talking and said, You know, it used to be that, you know, people would come into the world of sustainability or energy management. And they were kind of lower level positions and kind of ignored. But anymore, and especially in large organizations, you're seeing people that, that the next logical move, or eventual move for somebody in these positions, is actually to run the business because they're having to like dissect the way that the organization runs, in order to really fully understand how to leverage it. And so you know, they were predicting that these are the folks that will be running these organizations not just running the programs are currently in charge of which I thought was fascinating.

Amber Artrip 6:42
100% we had Jigar Shaw on our podcast last week, and he's one of the co-hosts of The Energy Gang. And that was one of my big takeaways from our conversation with him is he said, you will begin to see sustainability leaders in the C suite and as the next CEOs of major organizations.

Dave Karlsgodt 7:03
Well, great, well tell us how people can find you and and how to subscribe, of course.

Amber Artrip 7:08
So, our podcast is called the modern energy management podcast. It's available on all podcasting platforms. And you can check out our website at modernenergymanagement.co. We have a bunch of other great resources, as well as links to find the podcast on your favorite platform.

Nate Nilles 7:27
These topics we believe are continuing to hit home for our audience. But if there's any ideas, please reach out as well for what you'd like to see in modern energy management and we will do our best to bring it to the program.

Amber Artrip 7:43
Great point Nate, please email us at communications@luciddg.com. If you have a story you would like to share we love to amplify great stories of modern energy management being executed. So please reach out.

Dave Karlsgodt 7:58
Perfect.

Kaia Findlay 8:00
Before we get into our next podcast host interview, we'd like to share a recommendation from one of our listeners for a podcast that takes a holistic look at sustainability and climate.

Spencer Turk 8:12
My name is Spencer Turk and I recommend the For the Wild podcast with Ayana Young. I love this podcast because in each episode, Ayana dives deep into a topic varying from conservation and climate solutions to spirituality and plant intelligence. Ayana interviews experts, visionaries and activists that are working to rekindle our connection with nature and each other. Each time I listen, I walk away feeling more empowered, more passionate and better armed to go out into the world and make real change.

Kaia Findlay 8:42
Thanks so much to Spencer for reaching out with this recommendation and for sharing a podcast that discusses how topics like race, politics and sexuality intersect with climate issues. Now to talk a little more about podcasts in the energy realm is Chris Nelder of the Energy Transition Show. Chris is an energy analyst and consultant who started his podcast on the transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy in 2015. Here's Dave's interview with Chris on the story behind the energy transition show.

Dave Karlsgodt 9:11
Well, Chris, I was trying to remember how I heard about you and your podcast. I think it may have been back in 2015 when you're on the energy gang, but it may have just been that I discovered it through iTunes. I can't exactly remember. But what I do know is that at least since probably 2016, your show the energy transition show has become a biweekly staple of my energy information diet. And I'm always excited to have a new episode pop up in my phone, that usually means my minds about to be expanded my assumptions challenged my world view reframed, your guests are always afraid of the who's who and energy and an economic and climate science community. So it's great to talk to you and ensure about your podcast today.

Chris Nelder 9:52
Right on thanks very much for having a conversation with me.

Dave Karlsgodt 9:55
Great. Well, would you please just introduce yourself and give us a little synopsis of the energy Transition show.

Chris Nelder 10:01
Sure. So obviously, my name is Chris Nelder. I am the host of the energy transition show, I produce the content for the show. My business partner, Justin Ritchie handles the business side of things. And I've been an energy analyst for, I guess, about 18 years now, sort of sixth career I guess, for me. But Justin approached me about, I guess, about five years ago now, with the idea of doing the podcast because I'd been a big fan of his podcast previously, the extra environmentalist podcast and we were both, you know, interested in the same kind of topics on energy. The show itself really strives to cover all the topics that are in some way part of the big picture of energy transition, or about the role of energy transition in combat and climate change. We cover all the fuels we go deep on the ongoing evolution of the power grid. We talk about climate science soon we'll be producing actually A new mini series on the basics of energy to help people get up to speed. Because we've discovered that a lot of our listeners are, you know, they're lay people who are interested in energy. And they're interested in climate change, but they don't really have a formal background in it. And they could use a little help sort of getting up to speed on some of the basic terms and concepts and that kind of thing.

Dave Karlsgodt 11:17
Well, one of the things I've really appreciated I also curse you on a regular basis because you've set the bar so high is I remember sitting down with with you for beer in Boulder a couple of years ago and asking you how much prep work you put into each episode. And at the time, you said something like, at least 20 hours, if not more, per episode, is that. Is that still true?

Chris Nelder 11:36
Yeah, it really is. Again, our podcast is the only energy podcast I know of that actually asked people to pay for it. So I figured ours has to be the only one worth paying for.

Dave Karlsgodt 11:46
Well, Chris, one of the things I've really appreciated about your show is well, you certainly have an opinion. Sometimes you'll bring people on that have exactly the opposite opinion a view on a particular topic or in some cases, you'll have one guest followed Another guest, which takes opposite perspectives, but it's always very civil and informative and you know, mind expanding rather than adding to the ideological wars we seem to be living in these days you started in software. Right. So how did you get here?

Chris Nelder 12:16
Yeah, I mean, I really started studying energy in the wake of 9/11. Actually, I was very curious about, you know, who is this Bin Laden group and what what do they do in the oil business? I didn't really know anything about energy or anything about oil or anything about any of it really. So that was a subject that I started studying on my own time. When I was a software engineer, you know, I put in my 10,000 hours, proverbially, and studying this stuff over some period of years and finally got, you know, some literacy on the subject. And it just, you know, was captivating to me as a topic. I've never run out of things to be curious about the whole concept of energy transition as a way of to address climate change and climate change as truly an existential threat to the species and to the planet has always been a very enervating thing to me, you know, it gets me out of bed in the morning. It feels like a really important task. And it's so complex, it touches every dimension of human arrangements and society, and even just the way that we think and the way that we behave, I do let my curiosity guide me I don't have, you know, some great master plan for the topics I'm going to cover or how the show is going to evolve or who I'm going to talk to. But you're right, I do, to some extent, try to bring in disparate voices, especially on topics that I think, you know, nobody knows the right answer. And so, you know, it makes sense to bring in different voices who have different perspectives on a question like, you know, recently I did a three part series of shows on, you know, the evolution of wholesale power markets. Nobody really knows what the right answer is there. You know, there's a lot of people grappling with it. It does make sense to me to bring in multiple voices on those kind of questions. But it's not something that I do routinely. I'm very aware of the sort of the false construct of balance to just say, Oh, well, I brought somebody on who had this point of view about those topics. And now I have to bring somebody with the opposite point of view. I don't do that. I do try to avoid getting stuck in my own bubble of thoughts and prayers. I my curiosity be my guide, I think.

Dave Karlsgodt 14:27
Well, yeah, that that may have made the case for my next question. But, you know, I know I've been listening to hundreds and hundreds of hours of your voice and asking these questions, which would be great. So I suppose that's an endorsement enough, but can you help make the case for your show to our listeners?

Chris Nelder 14:42
First of all, our show is largely created for an academic audience. And so most of our guests, in fact, are university professors. So sustainability and energy professors and administrators are part of our core subscriber base. We're really building that community. Around the show. So there are a lot of students who now have access to the show through their school libraries or the or the site license of their institution. And there, you know many more who will, there really aren't any good textbooks on energy transition. A lot of this stuff is new. You know, a lot of these professors are finding that they're dealing with some kind of new challenges here, where maybe maybe 10 years ago, if you were teaching energy, you were probably teaching it to a room full of science and engineering students. And now you're seeing a lot of people showing up from the liberal arts side of the house, who are you know, more interested in policy or politics or business, all sorts of other dimensions of what's happening and energy transition. So we really try to give professors who are teaching energy, some material through the podcast that is helpful for them to teach the subject. We're also actually working on some new product offerings, which will be designed to help researchers find each other and one example of that is our reason Episode 107 in which I talked with a researcher at Stanford University who's working to launch a new macro energy discipline, which is designed to help integrate the various areas of research and study that play a role in the energy transition with the participation of academic institutions all over the world, really, I really want the energy transition show to help accelerate good transition efforts everywhere and help create a community of people working on transition, because I don't really think it exists properly yet. And I really want to use the podcast as a platform to highlight some of the interesting implementations that our listeners are working on and promote successful projects and ideas that others can try to follow.

Dave Karlsgodt 16:39
Excellent. One of my dreams is to maybe be involved in a project that warrants being on the energy transition show, but for now, I guess I'll have to settle on having you on our show. So thank you very much.

Chris Nelder 16:50
Well, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Kaia Findlay 17:01
Up next we have another recommendation. This one from a grad student in Mississippi.

Kori Armstrong 17:08
My name is Kori Nadine Armstrong. I'm a graduate student at the University of Southern Mississippi. And the podcast I like to listen to is A Sustainable Mind. The reason I like this podcast is it covers a wide variety of topics such as urban foraging beekeeping, soap making, and the last one I listened to was angel in the Urban's connection to tree conservation. The host is interviews different environmental and social change makers. So you learn about the sustainability leaders, how they got to where they are and what they do.

Kaia Findlay 17:35
A sustainable mind is hosted by Marjorie Alexander, who started the podcast as her master's thesis project. She found that in her study, she was often one of the few young people, one of the few women and one of the few people of color in the room. Her podcast seeks to expand sustainability conversations to include these voices and to make topics accessible to everyone. Thank you to Kori for this recommendation. Our next interview is the host of not one but two podcasts. Steven Lacey is a contributing editor with greentech media and the founder of PostScript media. He hosts the energy gnag and the interchange, two popular podcasts on energy and clean tech. Here's Dave's interview with Stephen on the creation of the shows.

Dave Karlsgodt 18:18
Stephen, it's an honor to be able to talk to you today. As I mentioned, before we hit record, we're doing this episode to highlight 20 sustainability podcasts for 2020. You have the distinction of making that list twice, I had already had both of your podcast, the energy gang and the interchange on my own list. But as we were gathering recommendations from our listeners, we had a bunch of responses. That was something to the effect of, well, of course, you've got the energy gang and the interchange, and then they would go on to explain some other show. So needless to say, there's a lot of love out there for your work. But for the rare person who doesn't already listen to your podcast, can you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about your podcast? Maybe we'll start with the energy gang.

Stephen Lacey 18:54
Yeah, thanks for having me on, Dave. I have been in the energy and sustainability podcast world for a long time, I actually got into podcasting in 2005 when I was in school, and I started hearing about podcasts and the use of RSS feeds and you know, using the iPod to aggregate audio shows, and I started playing around with it. And then I ended up getting a job with a business to business publication called renewable energy world in 2006. And they were launching a podcast and it was a pretty similar to the topics that you all cover and that we cover on the interchange and energy gang, the business of renewables. Of course, the industry was way different at that time, it was so much less mature. People were just wrapping their arms around it, but we were convinced that this is where the money was flowing. And there were a lot of really interesting news stories, and people flocked to it. And because we were the kind of only show out there that was covering the topic, we got a pretty significant listener base very quickly and that's how I cut my teeth in the audio world, I have a media production background. So I have an experience in audio production and video production. But podcasting was new to me at the time, and this space has really evolved considerably since then. And so, in 2013, I hooked up with Jigar Shah who I'd known for a long time, and he and I have been listening to a lot of the same shows. And this was when I had moved over to greentech media as editor in chief. And Jigar said to me, Hey, you just show the slate political gab fest it was actually one of the first political roundtable shows. He said, Let's try a show like that for energy and clean tech. And so we had been recently working with our other co host, Katherine Hamilton of 38 North solutions, and we had been working with her on a different project and we said, well, she'd be perfect as the other host and the three of us got together and just created a very simple format. Choose three topics and then news that are in the world of energy sustainability with a business focus, and debate and discuss those topics and create tension and narrative and try to make it as exciting as possible. And try to figure out in real time, alongside our audience, how this stuff is working and how it might play out. And so that is how the energy gang got formed. And it really took off. And I think because we were a first mover, it helped us get a pretty significant audience in this space. And then a couple years later, we launched the interchange with a slightly different focus, which was, let's dig deep into one particular subject, and try to work through the walk in real time, you know, the subject matter that we have to tackle and as we consider what it will take to decarbonize The world is very complicated, but how can we take those subjects and make them as accessible as possible, but really lean into the walk at the same time and and so that became sort of a an interview and discussion. Show with my co host Shayle Kann. That is a slightly different format from the energy gang. But those are those are the two origin stories of those two podcasts. And I think people have really responded to them.

Dave Karlsgodt 22:12
Yeah, well, I know I think I started listening to the energy game maybe in 2016 and worked my way through the back back catalogue. I remember doing a bunch of yard work and you know, just bingeing on him for a while. And I really appreciate it, you know, the different perspectives that you as more of a journalist and then Jigar as an entrepreneur, and Katherine, coming from more of a policy background, although she's got some serious technical chops as well. But I, you know, I found it for me to be just a great education and working through all those shows, even listening to kind of like how the news has evolved over time, you know, you would think a weekly news show format would not be great to listen to the back catalogue, but I actually found it fascinating because it was kind of like I wrote up the history as I worked all the way through the through the catalog. And then with the interchange. Yeah, I've really appreciated the wonk and I think having listened to all Energy Gang first kind of got me ready for some of the technical details you get into, as well as Chris Nelder's, the energy transition show we have, he's also going to be featured on this episode. I think between the two of them. It's helped me keep up with what you guys are talking about. But really fascinating stuff.

Stephen Lacey 23:16
Thank you. I'm honored. And when I hear feedback like that, it makes the show that much more fun to produce, because people do respond to it. And, you know, we're trying to figure this stuff out in real time like everybody else. And if we can provide a narrative and some perspective, and help people think through the issues and how they're evolving over time, then we're doing our job, even if people disagree with us, we want people to disagree with us. We just want to provide a sounding board and to work through these complicated issues together.

Dave Karlsgodt 23:44
One of the things I liked recently you guys did on the interchange was your draw down gamification approach. Can you talk a little bit about that and how you're trying to bring some of these topics in a little more fun format.

Stephen Lacey 23:56
Yeah, so on the interchange, we tried to gamify these topics as much as possible. So if you think about things like, would you rather you know, we come up with fantasy scenarios and then debate them. We have done shows where we take bets on the future and think through future scenarios from a decade out to a couple of hundred years out, and then we pose different scenarios and then take bets on whether or not we think that will play out. In the case that you're mentioning. We did a fantasy sports draft for decarbonisation technologies, and that was our second draft. Last year, we put together a fantasy sports draft that followed simple rules for fantasy sports, and we had to develop a portfolio of decarbonisation technologies, and then have our listeners choose who was the winner. Now Shayle, my co host has a lot more experience in fantasy sports. So he wiped the floor with me that first time and the second time around, we said let's find Different place to get our solutions and technologies. So we went to this organization called Project drawdown which catalogues every type of decarbonisation solution, both process solution, business model solution and technology solution. And so we said let's take this list will take the scoring off, and then we'll choose from the list our team of fantasy solutions, and then we'll look at the scoring and determine who wins. Shayle beat me narrowly, because of some steals in that episode, we got to steal each other's picks at the at the very end of the draft. But what we're trying to do there is just take a somewhat dry list, very important and well researched list but somewhat dry, and make it fun for people and try to encourage other people to do something similar. When we did our first draft other people, someone in Scandinavia, a bunch of people in the US actually put together their own drafts in different ways. And if you can create this resource that people respond to, and then it motivates them to try something new, and you can educate other people about the solutions, and engage them on a different level, it can really help have a greater impact. And that's what we're trying to do.

Dave Karlsgodt 26:18
Well, it was great. You even got one of the authors of drawdown to come and talk about the draft after you had done it. So it kind of came full circle, I guess, right?

Stephen Lacey 26:25
Yeah. That's Katharine Wilkinson, who is the VP of communications who actually had a role in crafting that list and writing the book that the list is based on. And she was really fantastic. And she listened to the draft and then responded to us and told us who she thought one. And it was really nice to hear the expert behind the numbers and choices.

Dave Karlsgodt 26:47
Well, knowing how much time and effort people put into sports. I think it's great that you're doing the same thing for clean energy, so well done. Thank you. So moving on. I know there are two other podcasts. I think you've at least had a hand in that you only get two for this live. often mentioned these two so maybe you get partial credit for two more. One is one that with Emily Kirsch from the powerhouse. You guys do a series called Watt it Takes, I guess maybe they have their own feed as well. But you guys released their shows which do you want talk about that for a second?

Unknown Speaker 27:15
Yeah, we produce Watt it Takes in partnership with powerhouse, which is an incubator and accelerator and investment fund based in Oakland. Emily Kirsch, who is the CEO of powerhouse, hosts that show and we are the sole distributor of that show. So we posted on the energy gang feed, and she sits down with founders of companies that are well known, some lesser known to talk about what makes them tick, their early years how they got into starting a company, their problems, the way that they solve those problems. Pretty much anything that you would encounter as a founder or entrepreneur we tackle with them. And you know, people are really hungry for these stories because you have so many folks who are trying to get into clean tech, they want to found their own companies, they're looking at what's happening in, you know, consumer tech and saying I want to I want to get into clean tech, I need to do something with a real impact. And it can be hard to enter this space. And so giving people a resource, so that they can learn from other entrepreneurs. And what they got right and wrong is really important. And Emily does a great job interviewing folks and getting these deep dive backgrounds with them. So we really like doing that show with them. And that's a live interview series. They do these events, hold these events around them, and then we edit and distribute the shows.

Dave Karlsgodt 28:32
It's always impressive how she can get successful CEOs to tell you what their spirit animal is at the end of the episode. So that's just a testament to how great her interview skills are. Well, the other one that I know you had, I guess maybe a hand in and I listened to on a regular basis is Julia Pyper's podcast, political climate, I think that was launched through your feed Originally, I know you were colleagues at greentech media for a while but um, can you tell us anything about that show?

Stephen Lacey 28:57
Sure. Yeah, that's a similar format. Co hosts, they're debating the latest political news, one Republican, one democrat and one journalist. And they really wanted to cut through a lot of the politics of climate change and try to bring in, you know, different unique perspectives on how we can effectively address the political stalemate in the politics of clean energy and climate change. So Julia had been doing a Facebook Live Show with her two co hosts when we were at greentech media and it didn't get a ton of traction, but it was very clear that they had a really good rapport between the co host and so we worked together to turn it into a podcast and we kind of work through the equipment setup and the topics and the format and dialed it in, work through the editing process, and then they went and launched the show relaunch the show and spun it off on their own and greentech media still distributes the show, although it's produced independently now, so yeah, I have my hand in a lot of different shows for sure.

Dave Karlsgodt 30:05
Well, that's great. Well, I think you're up to, by my count, at least, you know, four or 500 episodes that you've had a hand in at least that I've listened to. And that's probably not counting anything that happened pre energy gang, but super impressive volume of content and the quality that you've helped create over the last couple of years. One question I have before I let you go, you know, as we're trying to explore new podcasts, where people listen to what are some of the ones that you listen to beyond the ones we've already mentioned today?

Stephen Lacey 30:31
Yeah, so I listened to a lot of podcasts. And I have to admit that although I am deeply ingrained in the world of energy and climate and sustainability, I don't listen to a ton of podcasts in that realm, not because they aren't fantastic, but because I have to find another outlet for my interest and podcasts are great way to do that. So I tend to listen to tech news and politics shows just because, you know, if I'm reading something, I usually want it to be nonfiction and Similar in the podcasting world. So one show I really love recently is Reset from Vox. It's a new tech show hosted by a reporter, former vice reporter, Arielle Duhaime-Ross. And it really just looks at how technology is infiltrating our lives. It's not a traditional tech show like, oh, what gadget is out? Let's review the latest iteration of a piece of software from a company. It's all about the unique ways that technology is integrated into our lives. And they do such a good job of spinning a narrative out of different interviews and really tapping into the issues of the day. And I'm completely fascinated with the way tech changes who we are as people and the way that we interact with each other and the way that our organizations and our communities are run. And you know that that's a topic that's that's fraught for sure. I also love a lot of the daily shows that are out there, the most popular of course, being the new york times The Daily. They just do such a good job of making the news into a suspenseful serial show every day I have to tune in. Even though I'm burnt out by the news cycle, I have to tune in because they make each news story that they focused on very rich. And I just feel like I'm listening to an a never ending serial show. And I listened to a lot of roundtable shows as well. So The Slate Political Gab Fest, I listened to the 538 politics show, I listen to the crooked media shows, I tend to like the Round Table style shows that help you digest news.

Dave Karlsgodt 32:41
Well, no, that's great. And I think what I've learned after getting into podcasts, and both you know, being a podcaster and listening to podcasts is just how much content is out there and I really love the format because it gives people the space to really, you know, expand on their ideas and dig into topics in a way that you just can't do in a you know, a more cable news format. So thank you, Stephen, very much for taking the time to talk to us about your your shows, keep up the great work. And we hope we will send many list new listeners your way to enjoy all the great content you're putting out there.

Stephen Lacey 33:11
Dave, thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. And you all keep doing what you're doing too, because this ecosystem is really getting richer and richer by the day. It's so awesome to see many shows popping up, because it's important that people find shows that are relevant to their interests. podcasts are so unique, because you can learn so much from these conversations. And I'm really glad to see shows like yours, having an impact on the broader podcast ecosystem. So thanks again for having me on. I appreciate it.

Dave Karlsgodt 33:44
Excellent. Thank you.

Kaia Findlay 33:50
We got another great recommendation, a few, in fact, from someone who has been on our podcast before. Here is Brian Campbell of Central College in Pella, Iowa to share some of his favorite podcasts as well as his own project.

Brian Campbell 34:06
This is Brian Campbell and I'm the director of sustainability education at Central College in Pella, Iowa. I've got several favorites. Sustainable nation podcast is a great mix of interviews with sustainability professionals from higher ed, business and local government. It's been a great way for me to learn about people in different sectors, and also give a shout out to compact nation. It's a higher ed podcast geared towards civic engagement professionals. And I think there's a lot we can learn from these colleagues and how they've worked to transform higher ed over the last decades. Last but not least, I recently launched a podcast called Mid-Americana, stories from a changing Midwest. The show is about sense of place and regional history and identity here in the heartland, and how we're shaping a more sustainable future here culturally, politically and ecologically. Their interviews with leaders and local Foods, green business, sustainable agriculture and more. So I hope you'll check it out at midamerica.com.

Kaia Findlay 35:07
Thanks to Brian for sharing his favorites and for sharing his own work. That's it for this episode. And we want to thank Amber, Nate, Chris and Stephen for being on the show, as well as our listeners who sent in recommendations. We got many more recommendations that couldn't fit all in the show, so we have compiled a list that is available with the show on our website, campusenergypodcast.com. If the ones discussed in this episode intrigued you, you can find them on that list as well as many others. You can find our show on Twitter, where we are @energypodcast, or on LinkedIn. Just search campus energy and sustainability podcast. If you'd like to support our work, please consider leaving a rating and review on iTunes or refer a friend. As always, thanks for listening.